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so, okay, two things
5:35 PM
firstly, (sensory) dissociation is the thing that Reguile is basically saying switching involves
5:35 PM
secondly, I don't think the primacy of control has much to do with that
5:36 PM
or rather, I guess being dissociated means losing primary control
5:36 PM
but it's not necessary
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It is effectively the one thing, switching the "role" of host and tulpa. It isn't extremely complicated, but it does have significance and results in difficulty for hosts to "disconnect", so to speak.
5:36 PM
Right.
5:38 PM
I would say switching less involves disconnection from all sensory input and rather a switch in primary capability with the body - after all, that is the major difference between being the tulpa or not (assuming the tulpa is largely developed, capable of thinking on their own, has their own personality, etc).
5:39 PM
Since the point of switching is reversing the positions, sensory disconnection isn't a necessary component.
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okay. so, the component over and above possession, you would say, would be a reversal of who is 'dominant' essentially?
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@Pleeb I would be happy to try and help you with possession, if you wish. I have a few tricks I used to learn initially.
5:40 PM
Jackal: that seems a decent way to summarize it, yes.
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Have you got a guide winter?
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Or do you only share these tricks when they're needed, in one on one sessions?
5:42 PM
oh
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When needed.
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I see.
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alright, that makes sense. I guess for me, that just comes naturally with possessing a lot long-term. I think it took a lot of time for my tulpa in the body but not explicit practice.
5:43 PM
so I lean towards being slightly reductive towards that changing of primacy
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Oh, certainly. It can become a natural next step with long-term possession.
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what's more, it's hard to see what's desirable about it in its own right (edited)
5:43 PM
if it's unrelated to dissociation or anything, which I guess is the 'fun'
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In our case, it can be useful as there are benefits for Skye to be "inactive" at times - or relatively so.
5:44 PM
The one in the background typically experiences less intense emotion, for example. It can actually help with her panic attacks.
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Skye is the host, right?
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Mmm. that would be wonderful. Reduced panic symptoms. . . What about the tulpa?
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I don't experience the same anxiety issues as Skye.
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Do they experience the brunt of it in that case? (edited)
5:45 PM
I see.
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oh yeah, I get that too winter - the one in the background not getting so much emotion
5:46 PM
I guess I usually think of it as emotions being tied to the body instead
5:46 PM
or, possibly
5:46 PM
the one who's in the body takes on the function of 'experiencer'
5:46 PM
if you see what I mean
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My own personal trouble is depression, but that is more of a consistent dull pain rather than a severe spike of a panic attack.
5:47 PM
...I think the simple explanation for it is that the brain is finite. The one fronting has more access to it as they also need to focus on the surrounding world as well.
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Interesting. Is the depression to do with some existential realization? . . . . Not to pry.
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Not that the one in the background can't pay attention to the world, of course.
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it doesn't necessarily follow to me that that would mean only one person can feel like shit at one time
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But, I've found that sensory input without fronting is relatively dull.
5:48 PM
Ah - I do experience some of the panic attack, but it is certainly not to the same degree.
5:48 PM
And vice versa - Skye feels some of the depression, but not to the same degree as I do.
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I wonder about this blunted emotion though. I think we've all experienced our tulpa weeping pretty hard, or being so livid the anger is almost tangible. . . No?
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It isn't impossible to break through that dullness, no. But in the vast majority of cases, it does still apply.
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Hmm.
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As for depression and existentialism, an existential form of it was one way it manifested, and one cause at a time - however, I have resolved that trouble.
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They also seem constantly cheerey too. Whatever dullness they experience seems to have more to do with the kind of day we're having.
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I guess what I'm saying is that finiteness doesn't really explain it to me. I do think it's tied to access to the body though
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Thats good, Winter.
5:51 PM
So why does it persist if you resolved the problem?
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I guess another thing is possibly that there's only one physiological system for emotions
5:52 PM
emotions aren't going to affect cognition unless they're up there in your brain chemicals
5:52 PM
still doesn't really follow that the one in the back wouldn't be so affected though, hmm
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Depression isn't just a result of a specific cause, it can be a generalized problem as well due to brain chemistry. Or, perhaps there is some other cause I am currently unaware of.
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Actually, the arousal from an emotional outburst can be interpreted a few ways, depending on the state of mind of the person experiencing the rush. (edited)
5:53 PM
I forget what that theory is called. . . Arousal theory?
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Perhaps one could say it has less to do with the emotions being experienced and the interpretation of the emotion.
5:54 PM
Regardless, there is somewhat of a suppressive effect to emotion with us.
5:55 PM
It isn't perfect, but it does help - the fact that we can go "inactive" when switched does help as well.
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Is lucidity also compromised in the background?
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It depends.
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I know when I am tired, I can't sustain any sort of emotion.
5:56 PM
Except panic attacks T_T
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Skye is proxying me currently, but I am not suppressed because I am engaged with interaction here.
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anyway yeah that makes sense as to being a benefit. didn't think of it
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Sensory input being more clear is also a positive effect in some cases.
5:57 PM
It is far more engaging when I can physically interact with someone, relative to proxied responses.
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hmm. possession is definitely better than proxying in that regard
6:00 PM
I think the primacy of thought does also make a difference, but it's more subtle
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@SkyeNet I'll have to bug you about possession tips later.
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Alright.
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anyone here gone through the trouble of explaining tulpas to their therapist?
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I know people who did. What is it that you wanted to know?
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I've done it before.
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how'd it go?
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Are you wondering if you should tell yours or not?
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My therapist is very understanding and she actually schedules appointments with each of us in particular.
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depends on the therapist. Some have outright diagnosed them with schizo, others have taken it much more in stride, mostly they didn't know wtf that was and ended up reading on the concept
10:02 PM
some associate it with DID and might try reintegration
10:02 PM
there's really all kinds
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Some are somewhere inbetween
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I doubt that they would diagnose someone with schizophrenia. Much more likely DID. Schizophrenia is not even close at all.
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Mine suggested it was related to DID, and suggested it probably wasn't a big enough problem for my depression/anxiety to worry about it, given other life factors and thinking patterns.
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cadey has been literally diagnosed with schizo by her therapist
10:04 PM
wasn't one of the best ones for sure
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I'm skeptical.
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of who, me or cadey?
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They actually didn't land on the DID conclusion and liked it more to this guy's work on. not alters, but. . . it was something like imaginary friends for one's own mental stability?. . . Even that conclusion doesn't seem to be their final stance on it.
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Cadey's claims. It does not sound realistic to me.
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oh well, you do you
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I only say that because tulpas does not show any of the same symptoms as psychosis, at all. Even if you are auditory hallucinating, which I doubt many people in the tulpa community do, that is only one symptom and does not meet the criteria required to diagnose schizophrenia.
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Unless your tulpa is really good at forcing imposition and making things appear/disappear it isn't too difficult to tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined.
10:11 PM
Especially when you're not able to do imposition. :P
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Unfortunately, some therapists are not particularly good.
10:31 PM
I used to undergo therapy for myself.
10:32 PM
The therapist was clearly skeptical at first, but respectful - and proceeded to understand and speak to me as my own person, validating how I existed after spending a short amount of time talking to me.
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i don't have a therapist
10:32 PM
yet
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